its a huge mess downtown. There was a bus stopped in the right lane of morgan st by wilmington today and it just swung out into the middle lane and almost hit me. The passengers looked frightened. Then they drove taking up both lanes all the way through the Blount st light and continued on. Not giving a thought that they were taking up two lanes blocking traffic. Downtown is. a. mess. Too much street parking on main roads and not enough signage

I attached a photo to illustrate what I think the original poster is bringing attention to. I see this daily as well, as a downtown commuter. In the picture, the correct path of travel for a right turner is the green arrow but people often do what the red arrow shows, cutting off the person following the correct right turn maneuver illustrated by the green arrow. Yet the cross street, Davie (in this example) actually does have turn lane arrows but Wilmington itself doesnt.

I actually disagree...I think the red is the correct not the green. If you look at this picture (this is N Salisbury and Edenton), you can see what's painted on the street indicates that the right lane is for right turn and going straight. I've marked what people are trying to use as a turn lane. The portion of the street that is to the right of the bike lane is not intended for travel. If it is, then a lot of changes need to be made to indicate that and I'd like someone from DOT to weigh in.

H Sands I think your example is why this is a problem. CMA and op are correct. You are supposed to merge with the bike lane to turn right its like that in a lot of places - this whythey make the bike lane dashes

The law is to merge with the bike lane and turn right, H Sands. But I see why its confusing from your photo. That lane marking is pretty confusing.

Photo

I hope city of raleigh is paying attention to these comments because this is awesome feedback as to why its confusing and causing issues.

I created an illustration to show what I think the original poster is trying to communicate, since I see this issue quite often as well. I am a downtown commuter and work along Wilmington street and I noticed that the cross streets do have arrows showing where to turn from but Wilmington Street itself does not. Maybe that is the problem. I drew a green arrow showing the correct right turn maneuver off of Wilmington but people often follow the red arrow I drew, causing a conflict.

I think the confusion is because of this picture. This shows S Wilmington as you approach Davie. The lane you marked in red is painted with a straight and right turn arrow. Nothing indicates that you should move over into the lane you marked in green.

Here's a street (N Salisbury and Lane) where it's marked differently. This indicates to me that at Wilmington and Davie it was intentional that the turning occur from the marked lane.

The law states that vehicles should merge into the bike lane and the reason the line is broken is to indicate bikes can merge into the car lanes to turn left as well.

this is supposed to stop cars cutting across the bike lane right at the intersection and instead make them merge ahead of time. It looks like they allow parking way too close to the intersection to give time for cars to even move over sometimes. I cycle sometimes and this is a huge safety thing for cyclists as well

Its prob more an issue that cars turning right who merge right are cut off by people driving around them and doubling up in that lane

Also this law: § 20-153. Turning at intersections. (a) Right Turns. - Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway. http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_20/gs_20-153.html

I think the point is that the signage is lacking and very unclear. Especially when there are other streets where the turn lane is marked. I think the problem was with NC DOT and how the painted lines, etc. I saw a bunch of stuff on the US site that shows much better and more clear markings.

Agreed!

Also this is interesting. I think its more City of Raleigh than NC DOT. In their bike plan on the design guide pages 36-40 it shows how it should actually be, but how they have actually built it is wrong http://bikeraleigh.org/home/index.php/projects/bike-raleigh-plan

RIght turns should be made from the right-most lane. The right-turning car driver should ensure there are no cyclists in the bike lane near him, signal, then move to the right, where the bike lane has the green dashes painted. Then continue to turn right. When done properly and safely, the car driver will not "right-hook" the person on the bike.

From the NCDOT Driver's Handbook, p52: "...stay close to the right edge of the road, so that another vehicle cannot move between your vehicle and the curb."

And in North Carolina, a bicycle is considered a vehicle.

I stood and watched out of curiousity this morning at the Wilmington and Morgan intersection. I counted 8 cars turning right that did so from the middle lane. They did not merge with the bike lane/right lane to turn right. One of the drivers cut off a car that did move into the right lane and almost hit him.

Hello city please acknowledge this issue?

The spot in the photo by CMA by redhat shows where the city actually put parking INSIDE the area where cars are supposed to start merging with the bike lane to turn right. And in other spotts too why would the city put parking in these critical road sections??

I see it all the time on Wilmington st. at Morgan st. People try to make an extra turn lane instead of waiting for the person going straight to move and they enter the bike lane.

Closed

Open

The email for the city of Raleigh bike department is bikeraleigh@raleighnc.gov

No you are supposed to go into the bike lane to turn right thats why its not a full line. It turns into a broken line. Read the laws and info posted above

But not cut beside people to turn

what does that even mean. read the laws dude

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. We’re aware of the confusion and will be working on creating some educational material to help bicyclists and drivers navigate through intersections with bike lanes.  I’ll let you know as soon as we have something up on bikeraleigh.org.

 

Trung Vo, PE, AICP

Bicycle and Pedestrian Program Manager

City of Raleigh Department of Transportation

919.996.2476 | trung.vo@raleighnc.gov

cool would be nice to get something more than just a post on bike raleigh. not sure drivers in the city will make sure to check that website before entering downtown... there needs to be an actual change with infrastructure... for one there is too much parking right next to the merge area so people cant safely merge in time to turn right and even cops seen parking in that merge area from time to time

awesome

I agree, Devon - a post on the website will not be revolutionary, but it will be a start. Hopefully it will serve as a resource that you can point anyone to if they're confused about what to do. We're definitely using the lessons we've learned from these locations to improve how we design future bike lanes at intersections.

I'll also be working with several partner organizations to get the word out including Raleigh BPAC and Oaks & Spokes, but I'd be thrilled if you could help spread the word as well.

Stay tuned for the post - I'll provide a link here once it's live.

thanks bless yall!

Here it is, folks:
http://bikeraleigh.org/home/index.php/blogbike/374-right-turns-intersections-and-bicyclists-3

Spread the word and let us know if you have any questions.

We believe this issue was resolved. Please reopen if this issue persists and we will ask staff to take a look. Thanks!